18Watt.com

hello everyone, I'm new here...I don't build amps myself, but I'm looking for an amp, the the 36 Watt Ceriatone kit sounds like it might be the one for me....so I thought you guys are the ones to ask

first of all, this is what I need from an amp:

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1. EL84s - I have played through loads of EL84 amps lately, and I'm developing a soft spot for them.

2. Tightness in sound....I play loads of percussive stuff at times, I hit harmonics everywhere, mute strings, let open strings ring a lot, and I play behind the bridge quite a bit too...I need a musical amp that can bring out every little detail of my playing

3. glassy unforgiving response that is also fat and "even" (if that makes sense) - I hate amps farting out...keep in mind I'll be using a mosfet booster to get distortion...I don't want to try other pedals, I'm happy with the Zvex.

4. The amp has to be point-to-point for easy repairs

5. I don't need reverb

6. I don't need channel switching, but being able to jumper channels would be great

7. I don't need tremolo....or an FX loop....in fact I don't need any effects whatsoever...just great sound true to my guitar

8. It'll have to hit that slight overdrive/responsive bit at manageable levels - I need to gig it, and we are mic'd 99% of the time.

9. I do like valve rectifiers, but I don't mind transistor ones too much - in fact, they might just work better for what I need.

10. I don't want to use attenuators either...it's yet another thing that can go wrong at a gig (cable going etc etc)

11. it'll have to be able to take drastic EQ changes, I got some really bassy settings that I'll be throwing at it too (with EQ pedals)

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I play quite noisy experimental stuff, not classic rock (even though I do listen to classic rock loads at home). I try to make as many noises as possible using amp volume, my guitar, a slide and a couple of EQ pedals

I play a pre-CBS Fender Jazzmaster through a Zvex Super Duper mosfet booster and a couple of Boss EQ pedals.


I suppose 36watt Marshall clones could maybe be near to what I need...especialy as the have the half-power switch...do you guys agree?

will a Ceriatone 36 Watt clone with it's half power switch work?

if yes, I think I'll stick it on a 2x12 cab....what speakers would you go for?

many thanks in advance for all your help

Yannis

Hmmmmm. Me personally, im not sure EL84's are the answer to the "tightness" you speak of. I built a Ceriatone TMB 18 watt, and id never describe it as a tight sounding amp. I loved it for what it was, but it was actually very loose sounding ,and didnt hold together well in the low end. I was very frustrated by this, and ended up selling the amp. I tried many fix's and never could get the low end to do what I wanted. The normal channel, was great for what it was, but again, wasnt tight by any means. Ive owned many EL84 based amps, and always loved the sound, but never found any to be really tight. The best one I had was the Mojave Coyote. This could suit your needs, but they arent cheap. Just my opinion, but im not sure I'd limit myself to EL84's. I feel that EL34's,or 5881/6550 are better at the percussive/muting/tight thing. All this being said, Ceriatone is a great company, and Nik offers great service, and pricing. Maybe ask his opinion too, along with others on here.....Steve

hi Steve, thank you for your input, I'll check the Mojave out.

I feel the same way as Steve. I've owned a Ceriatone 18 Watt TMB, and I currently have a 36 Watt RP built by someone here on the forum. Both great sounding amps, but I too am looking for a tighter sound. I think EL34/Solid State Rectification is the way to go for me at this point. I just can't stand the thought of selling another amp and waiting on a replacement (but if someone wants to buy it, it's for sale )

Geoff

I'm not sure why your Ceriatones didn't have a tight bottom end. My 18Ws are huge and tight in the bottom end. Now if you put Blues into a sealed cab, you'll get too much bass, but in a semi-open back cab, or with any other speaker, you will get huge tight, bottom end hat is just perfect. There's a reason we call that 500uF cathode cap on the power tubes, the "J-Lo cap."

Zhivago, if your band is typically mic'd, I'd recommend the 18W. It is simpler and will get you overdrive tones at more reasonable levels. You need to ask yourself how clean you need your guitar to sound. If the answer is "not very" then definitely go with the 18W. If you run the 36W at levels you need to get overdrive happening, your ears will be ringing in no time.

BTW, are you a Doctor or is your real name Omar Shariff? Welcome to 18watt.com.

Graydon wrote:I'm not sure why your Ceriatones didn't have a tight bottom end. My 18Ws are huge and tight in the bottom end. Now if you put Blues into a sealed cab, you'll get too much bass, but in a semi-open back cab, or with any other speaker, you will get huge tight, bottom end hat is just perfect. There's a reason we call that 500uF cathode cap on the power tubes, the "J-Lo cap."

Zhivago, if your band is typically mic'd, I'd recommend the 18W. It is simpler and will get you overdrive tones at more reasonable levels. You need to ask yourself how clean you need your guitar to sound. If the answer is "not very" then definitely go with the 18W. If you run the 36W at levels you need to get overdrive happening, your ears will be ringing in no time.

BTW, are you a Doctor or is your real name Omar Shariff? Welcome to 18watt.com.

heheh, I'm not a doctor or Omar Shariff unfortunately...but I have watched the film a couple of times, if that counts for anything!!

we are usualy mic'ed and I dunno...I like that edge to the sound when it's about to break up, and the amp becomes responsive.

I've been also pointed towards the direction of the handwired Marshall head....this one here:

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/mmMBCOM/ima ... _2061X.jpg

would this be what I'd need? It has the solid state rectifier, so it should be tighter

maybe through an open-back 2x12 with celestion blues....or one blue and one green?

many thanks everyone

That Marshall is a nice amp. I cant speak of the tone personally though. Graydon has a good point about the power you might actually need, or use. The 18's are really pretty loud, and just about the right volume for cranking all the way up, and still being heard over a heavy rock drummer. Did you check out those Mojave sound clips? Maybe you might wanna send Graydon an e-mail about one of his amps too? Its worth spending the time to do the research for sure...Steve

hey, thank you for the reply...


I had a listen at the Mojave samples, yes...I find that all the samples I hear are too..ummm...dunno how to say it...."rock"....

thing is, even though these are great sounds, I don't need sounds like that for the band I'm in...so I can't seem to figure out if the amp is going to sound like what I want it to...I'm so frustrated

the sound I need is way before the amp distorts at that point....


I wish I could go to a shop and try an 18 watter out....maybe I could find the 18 watt Marshall hardwired one...that should be very similar to the 18 watt ones you guys build, right?

if i could at least hear the ballpark sound, it'll be easier....

Im feeling the pain. I know the Mojave clips are a bit on the harder rock side, but honestly, I never could get the amp to distort anywhere near that much. But....lets let that go for now. The way your talkin now, the regular 18 watt circuit sounds to me like it would work great for you. Have you searched in the 'Hear it now' forum, and the 'Zounds' section? Maybe you can find a clip someone has done that interests you, then you can research from there? Just a thought. Remember ,the TMB clips are gonna have more distortion than the standard 18....Steve

ef86 lite. theres a layout floating around.

chimey, jangley, and less crunch than the usuall 18 watters. very nice cleans.

Mate, I don't think the 18 is for you at all, I have the Ceriatone 18 TMB EF86, the 36 RP, the JTM 45 and the 50W JCM800. I can't believe people who reckon you can gig with an 18, maybe if you connect two 1x12'' boxes together with a metal band of steel and hang em off your head like h/phones , also the 18 has no real useable cleans at any volume louder than a whisper. The 36 is a totally different amp, mine is anyway and again, volume is not "LOUD" like I read here. I wouldn't buy anything on anybody's recommendation. It's just something you have to sus out for yourself. The reason I have 4 Ceriatone amps is because I still haven't found THE amp, probably never will. Just for the record, out of the 4 amps, I like the 45 the best. Ceriatone kits are about as cheap as you'll get and I had great fun building them but my tone quest is well and truely still on. If I had to gig with any of the Ceriatones I think it would be the 800 just so I had enough volume in reserve. I really like the 45 though. Sorry to all you guys with the super sensitive ears. I've blown mine out over the years but still, what's that got to do with anything. If you think a 36 is loud, I dunno how you could cope with a cracking snare drum.

You dont think people gig with 18's? I think your mistaken. Your leaving out all the variables in your observation. Speaker cabs, speakers,kind of music you play,room your in,drummer,PA......I respect your opinion, but you say in your post to not listen to others 'recommendations'.........except yours?

Depending on the gig, if you mic something it doesn't matter how "loud" the amp is, you can use jsut about any wattage amp. Unless of course it's a 1 watt in a very loud club or a 100 watt in a coffeehouse. If stage volume is your only way of hearing yourself, the you would have to go with something louder. Speaker efficiency makes a huge difference though.

GTRWUN wrote: You dont think people gig with 18's? I think your mistaken. Your leaving out all the variables in your observation. Speaker cabs, speakers,kind of music you play,room your in,drummer,PA......I respect your opinion, but you say in your post to not listen to others 'recommendations'.........except yours?

Well here we go, I should have known, in this case maybe I was bored and had nothin better to do so I finally vented some of my frustration with the "LOUD" issue. I guess I'm just a volume head from the 70's so I should have given a little leeway to the poor old 18 watter. Of course you can gig with it in certain situations. Hyde Park Mens Toilets is just one such venue that comes to mind
As for not listening to other people's recommendations except my own, that's a tad below the belt I think. There is a huge difference between a recommendation and an opinion.
If someone is wanting views, ideas, opinions on a particular amp or whatever, fine, but as for buying a product on someone's say so ( recommendation) Surely we've all been burnt before? I know I have and was just saying that my "recommendation" is to not buy anything on someone else's "recommendation". Very good advise I thought. Sorry if you felt undermined.

Hey.its all good......seriously, I worded a post almost exactly as you did recently, and someone had to remind me I was in the middle of recommending my advice while at the same time suggesting he figure it out for himself, so I figured Id share the love....Steve

GTRWUN wrote: You dont think people gig with 18's? I think your mistaken. Your leaving out all the variables in your observation. Speaker cabs, speakers,kind of music you play,room your in,drummer,PA

Spot on.
For instance, 100db rated speakers are twice as loud as 97db ones.
My 4x10 with G10 Vintages is massively louder than the same amp played through my 1x12 with a G12M.
I've gigged often with an 18 often, unmiked, in smaller venues.

In any case, as has been said, micing up renders amp size irrelevant. And of course you do mic up don't you? The old days of trying to be loud enough by having bigger and bigger amps are gone aren't they?
Unless you've got a small willy.